Menifee City Council Meeting - Jan 6, 2009
The Menifee City Council met this evening, here's a recap of what went on... The council met at 7:00pm for the open session. There was ...
http://www.menifee247.com/2009/01/menifee-city-council-meeting-jan-6-2009.htm
The Menifee City Council met this evening, here's a recap of what went on...
The council met at 7:00pm for the open session. There was no prior study session.
Scheduling
Scott Mann asked to cancel the upcoming January 20th council meeting explaining that it will conflict with the "New Mayors" meeting in Sacramento, in which the entire council plans to attend. All councilmembers seemed to be in agreement.
City Manager George Wentz brought up the subject of having the "visioning session", this is where the city council gets together to create their vision for the city.
Public Comments
Paul Krueger, Pastor at New Hope Community Church in Canyon Lake, and founder of Hope Learning Academy, spoke about the academy helping "kids who have fallen through the cracks", and thanked councilman Mann for helping the academy establish its business plan.
Anne Pica, spoke about the issue with establishing council districts, and accused the council for having a closed door meeting. She mentioned she's consulting with the Secretary of State on the legality of such meeting, citing it as a violation of the Brown Act. The Mayor questioned her accusation, to which Anne described in the previous council meeting that the Mayor said a decision was made not to hire a consultant. The Mayor explained that there was a misstatement on this; he didn't mean that a decision was made not to hire a consultant, but simply that no decision had been made to hire or not hire. Anne seemingly retracted, and apologized, but maintained her position that the voters approved districts.
John Denver jumped in at this point to ask the Mayor that the subject of districts should be agendized for a later council meeting where they could discuss this greater lengths. The Mayor agreed. It sounds like the council meeting of February 3 is going to have a in-depth discussion on districts.
Katherine Flores, also spoke about districts, saying that she just now learned the city council members are not in support of districts, and is favoring a special election to reverse the previous one. She went on to say that council members should "get out" if they don't want districts.
Chuck Reutter, stepped up to say that he's getting ready to do a city council recall, and said that "three of you will be recalled".
Phoeba Irey, talked about a book she recently read entitled, "The SPEED of Trust: The One Thing That Changes Everything
", by Stephen Covey. She related this book to the city council explaing that the council is lacking trust from the people, and that much of the adversity it faces stems from this. She went on to say that big decisions are about to be made, and made reference to some zoning issues where the council was approving subdivisions of rather small lot sizes, and that this is compromising the trust with the voters, perhaps eluding to campaign promises made by the council members.
Ryan Rubio, described himself as a 20 year resident, said that on January 2, he was visited by a code enforcement officer wanting to tow his car away. Apparently, it had been sitting in front of his house for quite some time, which he explained was due to a transmission problem. He had offered to push his car up into the driveway, but the officer refused, insisting that it HAD to be towed. Rubio argued to the council that the officer should have allowed him to push his car, and avoid fines. Instead, he had to pay $500.00 total to the DMV and impound lot. And to add insult to injury, he pointed out to the officer that there was another car across the street with expired tags, and that it too ought to be towed. However, the officer ignored it. He accused the officer of simply trying collect money for the city, for the fact that the officer wouldn't allow Rubio to avoid the fines. Rubio said that the code he was cited for violating, "22651 of the vehicle code" was wrongly applied. "I hope this isn't a sign of things to come" Rubio left saying.
Vince Valdez, Park Manager for Valley Wide Parks & Recreation, stepped up to offer his assistance to the city.
Louis Mazei, lent his support to the city council to address matters relating to council districts. He said that he actually voted for "at large", but noted that he lives very close to Sun City Core, and that if districts were created, his residence would very likely be included into the same district as Sun City Core. He felt that Sun City Core represents the most active voting block, and therefore his residence would receive a lot of city council attention, and would seemingly benefit because of it. I'm not exactly sure how he correlated his vote for "at large" with his assertion that districts will improve his quality of life. Nonetheless, he supports having a second election on this. Louis also said that he's now using "Menifee" as his mailing address.
Second Approvals
Much of the stuff on the agenda this evening dealt with adoptions and authorizations the council approved at the last meeting. Because the rules of the city council requires them to approve this stuff twice, it was on the agenda again this meeting. To save time, the council voted to adopt all these things in one fell swoop.
However, Twyman asked that he carve out one particular item, the Prima Facie Speed Limits, and the other council members approved.
Prima Facie Speed Limits
Twyman asked for some clarification from the City Manager, referencing a document that apparently lists what the "prima facie" speed limits will now be for each road in Menifee. He noted that the stretch of Scott Rd, between Antelope Rd and Menifee Rd was not mentioned. Twyman also said that he's not aware of any signs posted on this stretch that defines the speed limit.
The City Manager deferred to his city works guy (I don't have his name), and I couldn't really get the gist of what he said, it sounded like he was saying a lot of stuff without actually saying anything at all.
Twyman also noted other streets that seemingly have a rather high prima facie speed limit in areas where schools (and children) are nearby. He asked how they came up with these speed limits. The city works guy said that the County came up with all this stuff, they had people with radar guns measure the speeds that people actually travel, and then they figure out the 85th percentile, and that became the prima facie speed limit for that road.
Scott Mann chimed in responding to Twyman that he's going to be asking the City Manager to reassess the speed limit for McCall Rd, between Antelope and Menifee Rd, and will include the roads that Twyman was concerned about.
But in the end, the Prima Facie Speed Limit ordinance got its second vote of approval.
Interestingly at this point, John Denver chimed in to the Mayor asking if there could be some kind of pre-meeting, where city council members can ask such trivial questions such as those that Twyman asked, because they appear to be wasting the public's time. Denver noted that the council members have the right to ask these questions, but that it seemed like it wasn't a good use of public session time.
Twyman said that he actually knew the answers to the questions he asked, but that he thought the public would be very interested in hearing the answers, and that's why he asked them.
Council Member Comments
Scott Mann said that he had attended a meeting of Western Riverside Council of Governments, and in that meeting they noted one of the big problems with this bad economy and the high rate of foreclosures, is that the general public living in the Inland Empire doesn't understand the situation well enough. So, they came up "8 recommendations" for local governments to implement, and that this would help improve things. Mann mentioned that this would particularly help stimulate new home developments.
He asked for the city council and city manager to find some time on how to carry out these 8 recommendations for Menifee.
Darcy Kuenzi brought the focus back to council districts, and suggested the city establish a "blue ribbon panel", comprised of nine citizens, to determine the best government structure for Menifee. The panel would take a look at the different structures, what the cost factors are, what the benefits would be, and what the processes are. Kuenzi said that she "wants more information", noting that the subject of districts continues to be a hot topic. It sounds like this will also be put on the agenda for the next council meeting.
Fred Twyman said that he and Darcy Kuenzi met as part of the Committee Committee, which is the committee to determine what committees to create. They've apparently figured out what committees to create, and asked the City Manager to come up with a date when they can invite the public to apply for seats.
Closed Session
Around 8:00pm, the public session ended, and a private session began to address some lawsuit matters, including one involving Woodside Group, LLC.
But before they convened, Bill Zeidlik asked for some time to comment on the Woodside matter. I didn't quite catch everything he said, but that there had been other lawsuits, and even used the word "we" as if to suggest he had been in the middle of it. Despite saying a lot of things, and not really saying anything specific, he ended it by asking the council "to look at everything carefully".
And I'm sure the council would do so anyways.
The council met at 7:00pm for the open session. There was no prior study session.
Scheduling
Scott Mann asked to cancel the upcoming January 20th council meeting explaining that it will conflict with the "New Mayors" meeting in Sacramento, in which the entire council plans to attend. All councilmembers seemed to be in agreement.
City Manager George Wentz brought up the subject of having the "visioning session", this is where the city council gets together to create their vision for the city.
Public Comments
Paul Krueger, Pastor at New Hope Community Church in Canyon Lake, and founder of Hope Learning Academy, spoke about the academy helping "kids who have fallen through the cracks", and thanked councilman Mann for helping the academy establish its business plan.
Anne Pica, spoke about the issue with establishing council districts, and accused the council for having a closed door meeting. She mentioned she's consulting with the Secretary of State on the legality of such meeting, citing it as a violation of the Brown Act. The Mayor questioned her accusation, to which Anne described in the previous council meeting that the Mayor said a decision was made not to hire a consultant. The Mayor explained that there was a misstatement on this; he didn't mean that a decision was made not to hire a consultant, but simply that no decision had been made to hire or not hire. Anne seemingly retracted, and apologized, but maintained her position that the voters approved districts.
John Denver jumped in at this point to ask the Mayor that the subject of districts should be agendized for a later council meeting where they could discuss this greater lengths. The Mayor agreed. It sounds like the council meeting of February 3 is going to have a in-depth discussion on districts.
Katherine Flores, also spoke about districts, saying that she just now learned the city council members are not in support of districts, and is favoring a special election to reverse the previous one. She went on to say that council members should "get out" if they don't want districts.
Chuck Reutter, stepped up to say that he's getting ready to do a city council recall, and said that "three of you will be recalled".
Phoeba Irey, talked about a book she recently read entitled, "The SPEED of Trust: The One Thing That Changes Everything
", by Stephen Covey. She related this book to the city council explaing that the council is lacking trust from the people, and that much of the adversity it faces stems from this. She went on to say that big decisions are about to be made, and made reference to some zoning issues where the council was approving subdivisions of rather small lot sizes, and that this is compromising the trust with the voters, perhaps eluding to campaign promises made by the council members.Ryan Rubio, described himself as a 20 year resident, said that on January 2, he was visited by a code enforcement officer wanting to tow his car away. Apparently, it had been sitting in front of his house for quite some time, which he explained was due to a transmission problem. He had offered to push his car up into the driveway, but the officer refused, insisting that it HAD to be towed. Rubio argued to the council that the officer should have allowed him to push his car, and avoid fines. Instead, he had to pay $500.00 total to the DMV and impound lot. And to add insult to injury, he pointed out to the officer that there was another car across the street with expired tags, and that it too ought to be towed. However, the officer ignored it. He accused the officer of simply trying collect money for the city, for the fact that the officer wouldn't allow Rubio to avoid the fines. Rubio said that the code he was cited for violating, "22651 of the vehicle code" was wrongly applied. "I hope this isn't a sign of things to come" Rubio left saying.
Vince Valdez, Park Manager for Valley Wide Parks & Recreation, stepped up to offer his assistance to the city.
Louis Mazei, lent his support to the city council to address matters relating to council districts. He said that he actually voted for "at large", but noted that he lives very close to Sun City Core, and that if districts were created, his residence would very likely be included into the same district as Sun City Core. He felt that Sun City Core represents the most active voting block, and therefore his residence would receive a lot of city council attention, and would seemingly benefit because of it. I'm not exactly sure how he correlated his vote for "at large" with his assertion that districts will improve his quality of life. Nonetheless, he supports having a second election on this. Louis also said that he's now using "Menifee" as his mailing address.
Second Approvals
Much of the stuff on the agenda this evening dealt with adoptions and authorizations the council approved at the last meeting. Because the rules of the city council requires them to approve this stuff twice, it was on the agenda again this meeting. To save time, the council voted to adopt all these things in one fell swoop.
However, Twyman asked that he carve out one particular item, the Prima Facie Speed Limits, and the other council members approved.
Prima Facie Speed Limits
Twyman asked for some clarification from the City Manager, referencing a document that apparently lists what the "prima facie" speed limits will now be for each road in Menifee. He noted that the stretch of Scott Rd, between Antelope Rd and Menifee Rd was not mentioned. Twyman also said that he's not aware of any signs posted on this stretch that defines the speed limit.
The City Manager deferred to his city works guy (I don't have his name), and I couldn't really get the gist of what he said, it sounded like he was saying a lot of stuff without actually saying anything at all.
Twyman also noted other streets that seemingly have a rather high prima facie speed limit in areas where schools (and children) are nearby. He asked how they came up with these speed limits. The city works guy said that the County came up with all this stuff, they had people with radar guns measure the speeds that people actually travel, and then they figure out the 85th percentile, and that became the prima facie speed limit for that road.
Scott Mann chimed in responding to Twyman that he's going to be asking the City Manager to reassess the speed limit for McCall Rd, between Antelope and Menifee Rd, and will include the roads that Twyman was concerned about.
But in the end, the Prima Facie Speed Limit ordinance got its second vote of approval.
Interestingly at this point, John Denver chimed in to the Mayor asking if there could be some kind of pre-meeting, where city council members can ask such trivial questions such as those that Twyman asked, because they appear to be wasting the public's time. Denver noted that the council members have the right to ask these questions, but that it seemed like it wasn't a good use of public session time.
Twyman said that he actually knew the answers to the questions he asked, but that he thought the public would be very interested in hearing the answers, and that's why he asked them.
Council Member Comments
Scott Mann said that he had attended a meeting of Western Riverside Council of Governments, and in that meeting they noted one of the big problems with this bad economy and the high rate of foreclosures, is that the general public living in the Inland Empire doesn't understand the situation well enough. So, they came up "8 recommendations" for local governments to implement, and that this would help improve things. Mann mentioned that this would particularly help stimulate new home developments.
He asked for the city council and city manager to find some time on how to carry out these 8 recommendations for Menifee.
Darcy Kuenzi brought the focus back to council districts, and suggested the city establish a "blue ribbon panel", comprised of nine citizens, to determine the best government structure for Menifee. The panel would take a look at the different structures, what the cost factors are, what the benefits would be, and what the processes are. Kuenzi said that she "wants more information", noting that the subject of districts continues to be a hot topic. It sounds like this will also be put on the agenda for the next council meeting.
My opinion: A blue ribbon panel would create a solution for a problem that exists only in the minds of the council. Moreover, it puts the fate of the first election into the hands of nine council appointees. It was the city council who created this problem, not the people. There's no need for a blue ribbon panel if the city council accept the will of the people. There would not have been an Anne Pica, Chuck Reutter, and now a Katherine Flores, venting their anger in public session if the council had kept mum on this, and just moved forward with districts.John Denver commented that he still hasn't received any information how much money it's going to cost the city to run a second election on districting, how much money it'll cost to hire a districting consultant, and how much it will cost to have separate district elections versus an at-large election. He wants a cost analysis first.
Instead, by going public with their displeasure over the outcome, the council is at risk of deepening the division between Sun City and Menifee, when cityhood was supposed to unite us. And for the council to suggest that the people were ill-informed when they voted for districts is an insult to the intelligence of voters. Based on the anger they have created with this debate, councilmembers should wonder if the people were ill-informed when they voted for them.
Fred Twyman said that he and Darcy Kuenzi met as part of the Committee Committee, which is the committee to determine what committees to create. They've apparently figured out what committees to create, and asked the City Manager to come up with a date when they can invite the public to apply for seats.
Closed Session
Around 8:00pm, the public session ended, and a private session began to address some lawsuit matters, including one involving Woodside Group, LLC.
But before they convened, Bill Zeidlik asked for some time to comment on the Woodside matter. I didn't quite catch everything he said, but that there had been other lawsuits, and even used the word "we" as if to suggest he had been in the middle of it. Despite saying a lot of things, and not really saying anything specific, he ended it by asking the council "to look at everything carefully".
And I'm sure the council would do so anyways.
Who is Chuck Reutter? A recall already? Come on Chuck, give the council a chance to get things underway! To even threaten a recall this early into our cityhood just sounds like manipulative practice "If you don't cater to me, down you go!". Shame on you Mr Reutter for even thinking of it! By the way, did you run for council and lose or just what is your 'get-even' coming from?
ReplyDeleteThank you Steve for your, as usual, great coverage !
Wow, what a mess! The city council needs to approve what the people want. "For the people by the people."
ReplyDeleteChuck Ruetter's Bio.......I found this on smartvoter.org
ReplyDeleteMy wife, Sharley, and I have been married for 19 years and have lived in Sun City, California since 1989. We are members of the Green Party of Riverside County. Furthermore, my name has been placed on the ballot by members of the Green Party of Riverside County to seek election to represent the people living in California's 66th assembly district.
I am certified by the Hewlett-Packard Corporation as a HP3000 Computer Systems Manager.
Favorite Quote
"People should be involved in the decision making process that affect their lives."
Political Philosophy......
HEALTHCARE - I support a genuine Universal Health Care system which covers every Californian.
EDUCATION - I will provide substantial support for public schools which includes: universal reduction in class size, improved teacher training and salaries, greater participation of parents and community.
LIVING WAGE - I will work to institute a guaranteed living wage for all so that working families can escape poverty and live in dignity.
MASS TRANSIT - I will encourage state, county, and city elected officials to work with each other and develop an effective mass transit system.
PET CONTROL - We need a state supported spay & neuter program to help bring our pet population under control. In addition, we can look at a state supported no-kill animal shelter system.
GROWTH & DEVELOPMENT - I will support a call for well planned and responsible development of our urban areas.
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM - I support the California Three Strikes Project initiative to limit the 3 strikes law to "serious" and "violent" felonies. I also support the JAIL for Judges California initiative.
REPRESENTATION - I will introduce the concept of Proportional Representation in the California State Assembly.
FACTORY FARMS - We need to encourage and support family-owned farms. We also need to promote organic farming.
He ran for position on the MSJC board in 2003. He was slaughtered at the polls. He gathered 26% of the vote while his competition picked up 74% of the vote.
When he was on the ballet for the AD66.....he picked up 4.6% of the vote.
Now Reutter is threatening a recall of council members 3 months into cityhood. Sorry, but when you run for political office (twice) and threaten recall, he is now a target on blogs and political websites.
Let the games begin!
I wish to clarify my comments that was mentioned by Steve when he made his report on the January 6, 2009 City Council meeting. Additionally, I would like to take the opportunity for additional remarks. My responses are as follows:
ReplyDelete1. I support a debate of pros and cons of residents of the City of Menifee voting at large versus by districts. One way to have this debate is to create a blue ribbon committee to study pros and cons and provide the findings to the City Council.
2. Residents of the City of Menifee deserve this debate because there was approximately a 227 vote difference out of more than 10,000 votes casts between at large and districts.
3. Those who are loudly advocating that the City Council do not call for an election or the establishment of a blue ribbon committee are the same individuals that spearheaded the “No Cityhood” efforts. They were on the losing end by a landslide for cityhood. The election results show that nearly 62% voted for cityhood and 38% voted no.
4. My residence is in a family subdivision that is adjacent to the Senior Core. If districts were to be established, there is more than a reasonable chance that our subdivision will be included in the same district as the Senior Core. A member of the City Council could be elected that would be more concerned with senior issues in order to keep the seniors satisfied. Conversely, the council member would have less need to be pushing for issues of residents living in family subdivisions. Those residents living in these family subdivisions would then have very little representation on City Council because the other four council members would need to pay attention to the needs of their neighborhoods.
5. My family has made a decision to use the zip code name of Menifee instead of Sun City. We live in zip code 92586. Other postal patrons living in the different zip codes throughout the City of Menifee should quietly decide whether to use their current zip code name or begin using Menifee as a zip code name.
Louis G. Mazei, a Resident of the City of Menifee
It is interesting that everyone is so up in arms about the districts issue when the council hasn't really done anything yet. So to think that one area is getting preferential treatment seems a bit absurd.
ReplyDeleteLoius,
ReplyDeleteIn cities that elect their council members by district, do you think each district is made up of exactly the same demographics?
Should every "close" vote that happens in every election be taken back to the polls? If I recall the votes for the council members were very close, should we go back and have a new election for them as well? I bet more than a few people would vote differently.
Because we have council members that are afraid of votes by district does not mean the people voted incorrectly.
By the way, I voted to elect at large but was in the minority so I have moved on.
Having districts is only asking for trouble. We can already see the mindset of some of the people in the community, whose main goal is to create havoc rather than moving forward. The city council shouldn't get community approval for everything. If they make decisions we don't like then we vote them out and get new blood into office. Democracy doesn't mean that the people have an individual say in everything. We vote our politicians into office to speak for us. We are now a city and we need to start acting like one. If we continue to act like a small country bumpkin town, we will end up like Norco where the city is literally the same now as it was 10 years ago. The fact is Menifee needs to look toward the future, and while I sympathize with the Anne Pica's of "old" Sun City, our community is made up of young and growing families, by and large. The interests of those families should be first and foremost in the decision making process for our city. How do we create more parks, draw businesses such as movie theatres, fine and family restaurants, specialty stores, and other resources to our city. The marketplace should be seen as a beginning. The city has a huge amount of potential, and while I value a citizens right to speak and confront our elected officials, it sounds as though many of those who speak out and threaten recalls, lawsuits, etc... have personal agendas, not community based concerns. We need to stay focused. We are Menifee, not Sun City, Not Romoland. We are an independent Menifee, and we need to focus on what is best for the community as a whole, and the council and our community needs to understand that some people won't be happy with the decisions.
ReplyDeleteChuck Reutter is within his legal rights to call for a recall of any council members who is not representing the interest of the citizens of Menifee. 52% of the citizens who voted June 3, 2008 voted for districts. The sample ballot and information pamphiet had a full page argument in favor of eletions at large on measure "G" that was submitted by Supervisor Stone, Supervisor Ashley LAFCO, Cityhood member Ron Sullivan & retired Postmaster of Sun City. No argument in favor or against elections by Districts and yet the voters read and made an informed decision to vote for elections by districts.
ReplyDeleteSo no blue ribbion committee is needed. I think the real problem her is we were not really informed on the facts of Cityhood or the council members who ran for office. I think we need to go back and revote on those measures too. And to set the record right Measure F-passed at 60.68% and the no was 39.32%. So lets stop this madness and do what the voters approved.
Great notes thanks.
ReplyDeleteLaughing then wanting to cry. What a mess, sad, are we just some hick town?
A Menifee Mom
I voted for At Large also, but am opposed to holding a new election so some of the people involved can make money off the taxpayers. It's a waste. We lost; we need to move on. Besides, all that would happen is a few propaganda specialists will start the battle between the residents of Menifee and nothing will be accomplished. The election is over - NO NEW ELECTION. People are upset about cityhood too - they need to get over it.
ReplyDeleteAs for using Menifee for mail, I have been using Menifee for my previous 'Sun City' residence since October 1 and have had no problems.
I moved to Menifee because is was the closest thing I could find to Norco where I grew up and still outside of the smog. How many quiet small towns are left to raise kids in Southern California. It would be wonderful if Menifee/SunCity found some way to offer what the other city's fail to offer. It's a lot harder to keep and develop a quality community than is is to let development run rampant. I agree we need business, theaters and parks but we also need trails, wide streets (so people who live here can enjoy our beautiful town) and homes with larger lots (so people don't have to look into each others bedrooms and back yards).
ReplyDeleteLarger lots mean less traffic less need for police and less school over crowding.
I want to live in a town where it feels like I'm on vacation every time I come home from work.
I appreciate that Mr. Twyman grew up in Norco, but having grown up in Norco the last ten years, Norco is one of the most racist, backwards, regressive cities I have ever seen. Norco should not be the model we follow for our city. No one says we have to sell every square inch of our city, but we need to provide community services for all members of our society, especially the youth. Norco youth have to travel to Corona or Ontario for any decent ways to spend their time and dollars. Many of the youth in Norco have found "other" ways to entertain themselves. Norco may have had small town charm, but now the heart of Norco is dilapidated and antiquated. Norco is not what Menifee should strive for. It should be the model for what we don't want to be.
ReplyDeleteAmen to that!
ReplyDeleteMenifee has the chance to do it right. Do it right for all walks of life. Development that has something for everyone... rural, suburban, mutli-family, single-family, light industrial, some industrial, theater, all the arts....! We have alot of dirt and we have alot of say on how we want to progressively grow. We have a great opportunity here folks... we need not blow it by KEEPING US COMPLETELY RURAL... move on with your nostalga please!
I want us to be like the best cities in America... I do not want us to be like Norco for cryin'out loud.... more horse trails that go nowhere and that nobody uses but land that is wasted when it could be used for additional 'community amenities'.
I saw a sign on a fence the other day... "Horse for Sale $400"...last I checked, I spend more than that in a month to feed all my animals!
Grow up Menifee....it is time to move forward.
I don't think Menifee has a bunch of hicks but I do think that a lot of the citizens do not understand city government. The City Council is answerable to the public on all the decisions it makes for our City. Any citizen has a right to challenge the council members decisions. The council members have created this problem with the elections by districts themselfs. The voters approved districting and by law the council members must setup 5 districts before June 2010. Council members have gone on talk radio and in the menifee post and other newspapers and stated they do not feel that elections by districts are good for the communittee in there opinion so they are pushing for a special election at taxpayers expense and disgard what the citizens voted for. It is the city council who is deviding this city not the residents of Menifee or Sun City.
ReplyDeleteSo I say to the City Council proceed with the will of the people or get out of office.
I love the person that always says "grow up Menifee".
ReplyDeleteBecause if you have an opinion that is different than theirs, you must be a child.
What an intelligent why to end an argument. Thanks for the laughs!
I have lived in Menifee for 12 years and understand are need to have natural blend of rural and suburban. We need a master plan! What Menifee does not need is a patch work of housing developments that will bring the values down. This Council needs to layout a long term plan before allowing one more subdivisions in. The county did it's best to destroy our community and as a city Council should not look at what has been done but develop a city that reflects our responsibilities to each tax payer, the environment and local business. I am in favor of larger lot sizes (no less then 10,000 sqft) and a higher amount of 1/4 and 1/2 lots. Why? if you offer higher end homes will will have a higher income families and higher tax amounts to support all of our needs. I am in support of community trails that link parks, shopping centers and schools.
ReplyDeleteCouncil please do right the first time and don't follow but lead in the development of a city that we can all be proud of. Lastly don't give in to fast money, we all are suffering that action today across the US.
What is with the Anonymous comments?
ReplyDeleteIf you have a statement stand by it!
If you don't why should anyone take it seriously.
In response to Anonymmous, January 10, 2009, 1:24 a.m.,
ReplyDeleteIn the Mayor’s Message that appeared in the Menifee Post January 2009 Edition, Mayor Wallace Edgerton stated in an article titled “A Democratic Election means having an informed choice” In this article he stated “What has become clear is that the choice provided the voter last June was more complicated than their election material led them to believe. Many people are telling me that they want a chance to have an informed choice. A ballot measure that allowed them a choice between District elections, or “From District” elections, City-Wide elections, and a Mayor chosen either by the city council or directly by the people would give them a fair informed choice.”
I agree with Mayor Edgerton statements. In addition, the Cityhood campaign in June 2008 concentrated on the Cityhood measure and who to elect for council. The measure to decide between “At Large” or City-Wide was not debated too thoroughly. Voters need to have an opportunity to make an informed decision, In addition, nearly half of the voters (5049 out of 10,325) voted for At Large election over Districts. Because of the closeness of the vote, the multitude of questions surrounding this measure, the residents of the City of Menifee deserves another vote.
To January 10, 2009 5:55 PM:
ReplyDeleteWhose resposibility is it to inform the voter?
I find it hard to believe that our city council member, Fred Twyman, does not know the name of his own city he was elected to represent.
ReplyDeleteIn his recent post on Jan 8, 2009 at 10:59 p.m., he stated, "It would be wonderful if Menifee/SunCity found some way to offer what the other city's fail to offer." Come on Fred, our city name is and always will be "Menifee" not "Menifee/Sun City".
It is unacceptable for an elected official to inappropriately represent our city name.
The problem with establishing voting by districts are:
ReplyDelete1) We don't have anyone in the City office or council smart enough to do it; or
2) The council members are afraid they can't win a district vote.
The fact that it was a close vote as being the reason for a new vote is crazy.
If it is determined that a new vote is going to take place, we also need to re-vote for the council (which was also close). I am much more informed about the current members and now see their true colors.
I was one of the misguided voters in favor of district reps. I also admit I wouldn't listen to my husband who voted against districting. Now that I can see what it actually means, I would definitely vote against it. Edgerton (along with informed commenters) clearly gives both the pros and cons. The little paper serves a great purpose.
ReplyDeleteAs for obviously-aggravated voters (Reutter?), its strange how they reflect the burr under their saddles! OUCH!
The City of Menifee voters need to vote again on the district measure. The vocal opposition to having another vote on the districts are the same individuals who spearheaded the "No Cityhood" movement and are quoted in this article. The "No Cityhood" measure went down in flames by a nearly 62% for Cityhood and only 38% against cityhood. Is this opposition to having a debate and vote on the district measure afraid that they may be beaten badly again?
ReplyDeleteI find it hard to believe that a substantial amount of voters had a massive case of stupdity when voting for districts. All you had to do was read the voter guide. It wasn't that hard. We don't need to fear districts, as long as the members of the council vow to work together and not bicker like hacks. What we do need to fear is allowing our current council to have as much control as they would have, by giving them at-large control. Most, if not all, of our current council members were chosen because no body better was available. Over time true candidates will rise from the shadows, maybe ten years down the line, and we can revisit the at large option, but I would seriously question the sanity, let alone common sense, of any citizen would want to give at large control to this current council.
ReplyDeleteEverybody is going off about the delay on creating districts. The reason is simple, POLITICS. Everyone is going off in these forums, just think what the response is like at the council offices. Give it a rest, establishing districts is one of those things that looks easy on paper, but the practical application is another story. It will happen, this is just a hiccup.
ReplyDeleteShame on any of us addressing opposing views or words as 'stupid', 'ignorant', or some other demeaning term. This is a public forum and if we keep an open mind and one willing to listen and learn, we can find a lot of information from commenters. Its when I detect a 'superior-mind's' comments that I turn them off and go on to others. Until the day when some of us are ascended enough to be 'above having to perform the human daily habits', we need to be seen as equal footing ! I don't believe ANY of us are there yet!
ReplyDeleteIf we go "at large" this is what you will get:
ReplyDeleteLook at the Sun City and Menifee Lakes homeowners groups. Loaded with folks that have the time and desire to bicker, backstab, stack boards, and scream for recalls.
I voted for districts (listen Mr. Mazai) to minimize the influnce of these (and other) particular groups.
"At-large" will allow groups like these to potentially stack the city council with their own kind.
You are right Mr. Mazai, your family residence will not be well represented if your district includes the core, but districts will insure that family residences are represented on the council.
Limit the control of the retirees, the Sun City core, the rural folks, and the family communities with districts. Otherwise we could be faced with the seniors, or the Menifee Lakers, or the Quail Valley folks creating political havoc and this thing getting very ugly.
Where do our current City Council Reps live? Make a map and I'll bet this push for a new vote to abolish districts makes a lot more sense.
I want "Districts"!!! I understand that the 55 and over group wants at Large and they want to push their agenda. They have lived out here for a long time and want a say.
ReplyDeleteHowever, this city is no longer a 55 plus or senior community. This community is growing with young people and families. People who will be living here for a long time. We need people to represent us!
To anonymous January 14, 2009 12:15 PM
ReplyDeleteYou just made the point of why there should be districts.
The senior community has been here long before the rest of us and now there are people like you that think they should go away.
Not a solid arguement for an "at large" vote.
I didn't say I wanted "At Large" I said I wanted districts!
ReplyDeleteI don't understand why going 'at large' would open us up to getting someone like the HOA boards on council. I'd sooner think having to vote districts would make us more likely to get a nondesireable on from the HOA's (they fight dirty for a seat of power). So I prefer voting at large and have an option of weeding out the names we KNOW are not worthy. I favor letting the council we have give wise counsel in their decisions.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Anonymous, 1/14/09, 12:15 p.m.,
ReplyDeleteThe most vocal supporters of districts are seniors who appears constantly before the City Council Meeting. These individual are also very vocal in opposition to "At-Large."
If you google the official web site of the City of Menifee, you can read their comments, particularly the minutes for the Nobember 18, 2008 meeting. These individuals are Ann Pica, Ruth Goulet and Chuck Reutter.
The three individuals are the same ones that pushed for a vote of "No Cityhood" and they lost by a landslide (61%+ yes and 32% no.
Your misconception of Seniors pushing for At-Large" versus "Districts" is wrong. It is important to have a debate in an election campaign to set the record straight. This debate can also discuss the pros and cons of At-Large" versus "Districts."
The Seniors who are pushing Districts seems to be afraid of a thorough discussion on the merits of "At-Large" versus "Districts." Do not be bambozled and get the correct information.
to anonymous, at January 14, 2009 8:34PM
ReplyDeleteYou should be thankful that the seniors in your community attend all the city council meetings and are active in seeing that their city is represented the way the people voted. It does not matter that they were against cityhood or not. They accepted the vote of the people and you and the city council need to do the same. There is no need to debate on discussions of "at Large or by districts" 52% voted in favor of by districts won. If you or anyone else did not research or checkout what you were voting on then you should not have voted. Strange it's people like you who loose and cry foul because the election did not go your way. Shame on you. You have no idea who actually voted for districts and it does not matter if seniors or young people voted it passed. Get over it. We need city council members to represent us by districts and be answerable to the people in that district. Check out the facts most large cities in CA are by districts. Mayor Egerton comes from Longbeach and they have nine districts. He was on the council for 16 years in one district. So he must have been doing his job ok to keep getting re-elected. Menifee is 46.5 sq, miles and second largest city in Riverside. The real reason behind not wanting districts by the council members is the law states you must live in that district or you can not serve. Only the city council and the few who do not except the fact they lost to by districts are causing the problems in the new city not the ones who pushed for a no vote on (Cityhood) Shame on you.
WHY are we discussing commenters at the Nov 18th Council Meeting ??
ReplyDeleteCome on folks, just because individuals speak out does not mean they oppose everything! Seems we're unfair, especially to our seniors; instead of being thankful they actively take part in the goings-on out here. They have a legitimate voice; along with lots of wisdom on a lot of things.
To comment from anonymous on January 14, 2009 5:48 PM.
ReplyDeleteI know you did not mean to generalize and label hoa board members as being non-desirable and fighting dirty for a seat of power. I moved to a new development that unfortunately is controlled by an hoa. It was very difficult to find a house in a new development that does not have an hoa, so I decided that if I have to live within an hoa with rules and regulations put into place by the new developer, I wanted to have a say so and prevent any unfair rules and regulations from being added and to prevent misuse of power. My desire was to live peacefully without massive control by the hoa.
Therefore, I ran for our hoa board several years ago and have been serving ever since. The good news is that the other members of our board feel the same as I do and our residents are pleased with the outcome.
I understand those who make the valid point about 'by district' already being decided by the people. I also understand others who say the issue needs to be brought back for a vote. I am very disappointed that so much attention was being placed on the council election that not much information came out about for or against voting for districts.
In response to the blogers on 1/14/09 at 3:55 and 5.06,
ReplyDeleteWhy are the no cityhood supports, which now is against district so against having a debate during a campaign to decide between At-Large or Districts. This debate will result in informed voters? Are the no at large supporter afraid that informed voters may vote opposite to their stance? Incidentally, my source of information for the number of voters voting against districts was taken from the Riverside County Registrar of Voters. There were only 227 votes difference out of 10,330 votes casts. The City of Menifee residents deserves another vote to discuss the pros and cons of districts versus at large.
The pros and cons were discussed before the Nov. election. Why should they be discussed again?
ReplyDeleteMaybe for some sillies like me who did not understand before. This is important (more than originally thought); so giving more information all along the line does help. Some of us (me) are not too proud to admit we didn't know as much as we thought we did. I don't see any of the misunderstandings is unusual when starting up a new city like we are. We have a great board who deserve our support.
ReplyDeleteIn response to the poster on 1/16/08 at 9:41 a.m.
ReplyDeleteThe comment from the poster on 1/15/09 at 7:28 p.m. is very well stated. It is as follows:
"I am very disappointed that so much attention was being placed on the council election that not much information came out about for or against voting for districts."
The above comment depicts the reason that we need to have another election to discuss the at large versus district measure.
Why do I have to pay for this to be put on the ballot again because you chose not to get informed?
ReplyDeleteYes, we need another election specifically for this. AFTER having enough public forums designed to educate us. Small price to pay for something of this importance.
ReplyDeleteHaving a recall election to remove council members that do not honor the will of the people is also a small price to pay.
ReplyDeleteTo anonymous on Jan 19th at 7:57 am:
ReplyDeleteI struggle to understand why there always has to be a few people like you who whine and cry 'recall' when things do not go your way.
Wouldn't it be better (and healthier) to learn how to get along with others and be supportive? Perhaps it is a good time in your life to begin by being an optimist.
Here are some great words to live by from Optimist Int'l...
Promise Yourself-
To be so strong that nothing can disturb your peace of mind.
To talk health, happiness and prosperity to every person you meet.
To make all your friends feel that there is something in them.
To look at the sunny side of everything and make your optimism come true.
To think only of the best, to work only for the best, and to expect only the best.
To be just as enthusiastic about the success of others as you are about your own.
To forget the mistakes of the past and press on to the greater achievements of the future.
To wear a cheerful countenance at all times and give every living creature you meet a smile.
To give so much time to the improvement of yourself that you have no time to criticize others.
To be too large for worry, too noble for anger, too strong for fear, and too happy to permit the presence of trouble.
I just want to point out to the above anonymous commenter that it's not Chuck Reutter complaining about districts. It was the city council who first started the complaining.
ReplyDeleteIn response to the blogger posting on 1/19/09 at 7:57,
ReplyDeleteAre you part of the "No Cityhood" group that has been carping and threatening the city council from the first meetings to present? This group has been threatening recalling three Council member at City Council meetings. These threats have apparently been made as an attempt to force the council to decide in the "No Cityhood" proponents directions on different issues. To continously attempt to disturb the Council from laying a very stong foundation in governance during the first year is very wrong. All of you need to move on after losing to the "Yes Cityhood" supporters by a nearly 62% to 38% margin in the June 3, 2008 Election.
Why don't the "No Cityhood" proponents volunteer their services to the different committees as they are organized and help the city become a desirable place that all of us can live. I am sure that there are some good ideas within each of you that can help the city and we are able to know each of you in more positive terms.
To January 19, 2009 7:30 PM: Why is one crying when they bring up recall, which I totally disagree with, and when re-voting for dtricts is brought up, it makes perfect sense?
ReplyDeleteTo January 19, 2009 9:22 PM: I have been a proponent for incorporation from the day I moved to Menifee and I did vote for at-large. But as I stated above, why should we pay to re-vote for districts because there are some that didn't get their way?
And please don't bring up the fact that it was a close vote and people chose to vote ignorantly. Give me something else.
January 19, 2009 7:57 AM
For goodness sakes, when its the FUTURE of our great city's success; stop blaming us for admitting we were not thinking when we voted for districts; just have a new vote and eat it up. This is our new city here at stake! Save the recalls for IF and WHEN its really warranted....this is too early for even thinking about it because you didn't get your way. YOU'RE CONSIDERING GIVING OUR NEW CITY A BLACKEYE; THEN THE ENTIRE STATE WILL KNOW WHAT WHINERS LIVE HERE!
ReplyDeleteMost of the whining is coming from those who want to re-vote for districts. So just eat it up and live with what the majority of people voted for.
ReplyDeleteAnyone out there know how I can volunteer to creat the districts for the city to approve? I'd love to serve in this capacity.
ReplyDeleteIf we just get this done we can move on.