Stop Means Stop
On my travels in and around Menifee, I pass through the intersection at Menifee Road and Holland Road quite often. As a strange phenomenon, ...
http://www.menifee247.com/2008/09/stop-means-stop.htm
On my travels in and around Menifee, I pass through the intersection at Menifee Road and Holland Road quite often. As a strange phenomenon, I have noticed that many motorists seem to be unaware that this is a 4-way stop, even though it is clearly marked. What I mean is, that many, many of them just glide on through without stopping.
I have been at this intersection at all different times of day to witness this. But to be certain that it wasn’t just something I see, I talked with some of the sign twirlers who work on this corner. They have conveyed to me that 1 out of every 5 cars stop, at best. And most of those “stops” are the infamous “California Rolling Stop”.
This intersection is right in between 2 elementary schools and one middle school. I see children here quite often. How is it that these motorists can be in such a hurry, and be so careless?
The day that frustrated me most was the day that I saw a school bus stopped not far from the corner, with it’s stop sign blinking and red lights flashing. I watched car after car breeze through the intersection, and then continue on to pass the school bus! The stop sign that extends out from the side of the bus was flashing, and yet one motorist after another ignored this, and went right on by.
C’mon folks. Where are you going that you cannot stop at a 4-way stop? Or better yet, for a school bus with children disembarking? There must be other intersections in Menifee where this is happening, I am certain. Now, I know you, the reader, would never do this, so please, to your neighbor, pass it on. . . STOP MEANS STOP!
I have been at this intersection at all different times of day to witness this. But to be certain that it wasn’t just something I see, I talked with some of the sign twirlers who work on this corner. They have conveyed to me that 1 out of every 5 cars stop, at best. And most of those “stops” are the infamous “California Rolling Stop”.
This intersection is right in between 2 elementary schools and one middle school. I see children here quite often. How is it that these motorists can be in such a hurry, and be so careless?
The day that frustrated me most was the day that I saw a school bus stopped not far from the corner, with it’s stop sign blinking and red lights flashing. I watched car after car breeze through the intersection, and then continue on to pass the school bus! The stop sign that extends out from the side of the bus was flashing, and yet one motorist after another ignored this, and went right on by.
C’mon folks. Where are you going that you cannot stop at a 4-way stop? Or better yet, for a school bus with children disembarking? There must be other intersections in Menifee where this is happening, I am certain. Now, I know you, the reader, would never do this, so please, to your neighbor, pass it on. . . STOP MEANS STOP!
It's not just Menifee Rd and Holland. It's not just in Menifee. This problem exists everywhere. I own and ride a motorcycle as my means of transportation. More than once, I have had to take evasive actions to avoid hitting a vehicle who has not stopped at a stop sign (or for that matter, even red lights). Unless there is a law enforcement person who witnesses this violation, or a red light camera catches a vehicle on film, I don't see how this can ever be stopped. Another hazard that effects drivers; lack of the use of turn signals. People just make turns, lane changes, etc. without using their turn signals. Again, this is a real hazard to the other motorist or pedestrian, when a vehicle just turns without warning. I look at it as, I can't change another person's driving habits, so I have to be a better defensive driver. It's just to bad more of these people aren't cited for moving violations.
ReplyDeleteBrian, you bring up a great point in that there is not much that can be done other than contacting the CHP about more moving violations. This is an issue that hopefully the city council will address and resolve.
ReplyDeleteI would also like to make sure that the readers here understand that it doesn't matter which side of the street you are on, you must stop for a school bus when the red lights are flashing, even if it is old and doesn't have a stop sign, you must stop if the red lights are flashing. I don't know if there is an exception when there is a center median and you are on the opposite side.
Drive Safe
The intersection of Holland & Menifee Roads is a problem area. Law enforcement is aware of it and that includes CHP, the MSJC PD, and the soon to be new Menifee PD. I have contacted the County several times over this intersection and one thing that came to light from my discussion with them is the speed limit running north & south on Menifee Road is higher than what the County approved. Those speed limit signs should be changing soon from 50 mph down to 40 mph.
ReplyDeleteThe County is also aware of the request to assess the need for a traffic light and additional signage at that intersection. Mr. Tai at the County transportation office is working on that assessment with his staff. I can also assure you that the new City Council is aware of this intersection.
I conducted an informal pedestrian survey at that intersection in February of this year. It took me three days and I posted myself at the intersection at times to coincide with arrival and dismal of schools. The data that I gathered from this survey was given to Mr. Tai at the County office and resulted in the speed limit issue being addressed. The School District also used this survey to determine the number of crossing guards that were placed at that intersection.
Regrettably, none of the foregoing will prevent the "California Rolling Stops" that I too observed routinely during my three day survey. The only solution will be a traffic light AND possibly enforcement cameras!
Once we get to October 1st and we control our own law enforcement, we will be able to better enforce that intersection and hold motorists accountable for their actions.
Sincerely,
Scott Mann
City Councilman-Elect
We live on the corner by a stop sign in the Summerhouse track in Menifee. It's off of Scott Road past Lindenberger. It's a neighborhood for God's sake and people roll through that stop and then better than that they speed on the street. I have a 4 year old son and I constantly worry about him when he is on the sidewalk on his bike. Who can I call to help enforce the rolling stops and speeding through the neighborhood?
ReplyDeleteI am glad this is being talked about. Ridgemoor and Murrieta road is a huge problem. Again, at the time Ridgemoor school starts the parents returning to the Pete Peterson and the Lazy Creek neighborhoods do not stop! I am all for cameras. And, to the poster who mentioned their 4 year old on the sidewalk with a bicycle, I would not let mine on any sidewalk in Menifee with a bicycle at that age.
ReplyDeleteI think that Traffic Cameras to at least get those that are running red lights is a great idea. I know of at least 5 intersections just on newport road that are in desperate need of them. Besides, that would bring in some good revenue to the new city especially if they charge the $300+ that Murrieta and Temecula Charge. since people are in such a rush that they have no regard for others as they run the red light then maybe they should help fund the new police dept with their red light tickets.
ReplyDeleteRed light cameras at all major intersections would bring in a HUGE amount of money to the new city. The cost to install them would pay for themselves in less than a month!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteThank you Scott Mann for the information you provided and your attention to this problem. S.O.M.
ReplyDeleteOn the subject, a couple of years ago my daughter's school had their science fair. One of the projects that I thought was OUTSTANDING is a child who did an experiment on drivers who ran through the stop sign on her street. She spent XX amount of days tracking down the number of cars that traveled through and presented her observations.
ReplyDeleteIt was really astonishing what her experiment showed. I was just one of many parents standing there staring at her numbers, in shock! It really opened up my eyes - I think especially coming from this 10 year old.
I know the problem exists, in all areas, not just Menifee. Her project helped me to see it and recognize that I have done it.
I hope that child got an A+ on her report.
Thank you to Mr. Mann for bringing attention to it from your level. I appreciate it.
In response to the comment from September 05, 2008 at 9:26 PM:
ReplyDeleteThe commenter has a valid point about the intersection at Murrieta and Ridgemoor. But its happening more often than just when parents are returning from dropping off or picking up students. The scary thing is, that is an intersection that is lucky enough to have a traffic signal, yet people still don't come to a complete stop. Scarier still is the fact that, because of the bushes on the northwest side of the street, it is essentially a blind intersection. That reason alone is enough to make both me and my wife come to a complete stop when the light is red. And we happen to be parents that find ourselves returning to the "Pete Peterson" neighborhood.
And since we are on the topic, I would like to bring up two more intersections - Murrieta/Park City (by Pete Peterson Park) and Murrieta/Lazy Creek.
The intersection and Murrieta and Park City is one of those infamous four way stops where most of the people traveling north or south tend to roll through the intersection. Fortunately, both the CHP and Sheriff's Department are aware of this and they take a proactive approach at catching the drivers going through the intersection. Hard to believe that it has only been a few years since the county finally made that a four way stop - it used to be that traffic on Murrieta Rd. did not have to stop.
Murrieta and Lazy Creek is another story altogether. It is still a 2 way stop. I don't normally use Lazy Creek to exit the neighborhood, but there have been occasions where it has been more convenient for one reason or another. During certain times of the day, a person can find themselves sitting there waiting to turn for what seems like an eternity. In reality, the longest I have ever had to wait is about two minutes, but I'm sure everybody that commutes or has ever commuted knows what I mean when I say it felt like an eternity. And in my opinion, two minutes is far longer than a person should have to wait to make a right or left turn.
Both of these intersections can realistically use traffic signals. If we can't get traffic signals, then maybe the city can explore the possibility of making Murrieta and Lazy Creek a four way stop (along with crosswalks).
Individual citizens get out there and video the corner during busy times in all those areas..then send copies to heads of law enforcement and the city council..via emails. We have the power lets use it to our benefit. We will defintely catch repeat offenders and even get some on a ticket. Make sure your digital is properly time stamped. I will be out there and around my kids school doing the same...See you on the corners.
ReplyDeleteAt Murietta and Holland if you are coming up to the sign and someone beats you they usually run it thinking that you can't run it first. It happens all of the time due to the lack of enforcement and short staffing around hee.
ReplyDeleteA great deal of these people are simply a product of their sociopathic upbringing and environment. They do not feel that the rules and laws that apply to others, apply to themselves. Therefore, when we see individuals who choose not to stop or drivers still not using a handsfree device while driving, it's a matter of "the rules do not apply to me".
ReplyDeleteCan you change these people? Usually not. Can you hold them accountable for their actions? Absolutely! It will however require a more focused effort from law emforcement, concerned citizens and the city council.
I used to see a MSJCPD officer at this intersection almost every night. I noticed he pulled over many people while on my nightly walks. I have not seen this officer or any officer lately. Guess all the whinning about the MSJCPD going off campus has prevened them from looking for the traffic violators.
ReplyDeleteOk, what about in front of Ralphs?? OMG people risk their lives just to get out of there. A light there seems logical, or don't allow U turns at Sunstream.
ReplyDeleteTheir are very rude driviers out there. These folk don't realize they will be put in jail, if the ran over a child. In the 80's mom mom was driving down the residental street, when a child ran out in front of her, the child was ok and my mom was driving the speed limit, had she been speeding, totally different story.
I completely agree with the poster. "Stop means stop!" Unfortunately, however, there is little we can do until the City of Menifee starts their own police department. Until then we must rely on the MSJC Police Department. I drive through that intersection daily and always see one of their units monitoring that intersection (and the one at Craig and Menifee with the downhill slope). Incidentally, the MSJC P.D. have been doing a fine job for our community by picking up the slack for the Riverside County Sheriff. I know of several residents and business owners in the Menifee area who have the personal cell phone numbers of the MSJC police officers and call them routinely for help. C.H.P. is rarely seen and the Riverside Sheriffs don’t have enough cars in the area to handle their work load- much less an intersection. They are handling radio calls. The quicker we get a Menifee Police Department the sooner we'll be able to correct issues like this.
ReplyDeleteBe careful what you say. You just might get what you asked for! I seem to remember not too long ago many of the residents (probably some posting on here and Ann Motte) were complaining about the MSJC Police. Now that they have been reeled in by their chief and college administrators they have become "reactive" in stead of "PROactive." A proactive police officer would be watching that intersection (like they were before). But all the anti-Police folks on here complained and now look what they got! Deal with it!
ReplyDeleteI am all for Red the Light cameras, please install them in every traffic light post. I know they are expensive but with the number of offenders here, the new city will be able to recoup the cost in no time.
ReplyDeleteAlso, to our City council - Four Way Stop Signs are a thing of the past, they did not work before we incorporated and they are obviously not working now. Please prioritize the installation of 1) Side-walks, Bike-lanes and 2) Traffic Lights around our schools, please raise taxes (for funding this projects) if you must in order to safeguard our youths.
The last thing we need are cameras. Honestly I've never seen a group of people make a small problem into a huge ordeal.
ReplyDeleteThe last thing we need are cameras. Honestly I've never seen a group of people make a small problem into a huge ordeal.
ReplyDeleteJon, You are nuts!! Don't even suggest that our taxes be raised. There are plenty of other ways for the city to make money. RAISING TAXES IS NOT AN OPTION!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteTo poster "the last thing we need are cameras": How could you say that in good conscience?? Apparently you too think this is all overblown? Well my friend, just stop and talk to ANY crossing guard at the school crossings ! They must endure getting the kids safely across while at the same time trying to watch for stop-sign runners, redlight runners and impatient people blowing at them or making snide comments with rolled-down windows because "you're holding up traffic"! Keeping a pad to write down offenders license is impossible; you're busy trying to protect the kids. Periodically, an officer will station himself nearby (after being asked by the crossing guard who has had too many close calls to the kids lives); its mindboggling how many tickets the officer writes just during the crossing hours. Then, drivers pay attention for a FEW days; then their habits kick back in and they start all over again. So bring on the cameras - Saving the life of just one child is worth it all. Again, IF you wonder if this is a serious or 'overblown' situation, just ask any crossing guard!!
ReplyDeleteTo: Jon, You are nuts!! Don't even suggest that our taxes be raised. There are plenty of other ways for the city to make money. RAISING TAXES IS NOT AN OPTION!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteBy Anonymous, at September 10, 2008 2:18 AM
Your choice, a few bucks for a LIFE!!! Come on people make sacrifices (cut on cigarettes or beer money or any other unnecesarry expenses). I dont have anything againts smoking and drinking(just dont drive, then it is personal). Bottom line for me is, if it is for the safety of our children/community I am all for it. You can earn that money back again, unlike life when it's taken, it's gone.
The revenue that Red Light cameras would bring to the new city as well as the added safety for everyone would be perfect.
ReplyDeleteThe revenue from the cameras should make them pay for themselves. I think the city would need to research where they would be most beneficial and cost effective before they go installing them at every stop light. Menifee does need to make improvements in the area of traffic, from enforcement to hazard and flow but it needs to be done responsibly.
ReplyDeleteYes, I believe that this is being blown way outta line. honestly I believe this whole topic was brought up by the council elect or their associates, just to get the soft headed people around here worked up for these revenue generators. They do nothing but bring traffic to a stand still. Honestly you people wait half a green light to go no, how long will you wait at a camera? Traffic will be moving 1 car at a time.
ReplyDeleteTo the genius who posted on 9/12/08. Menifee Tina posts a regular blog every Friday. She is a Menifee resident who is in no way affiliated with the city council. It is unfortunate that traffic is not moving fast enough for you. You must be an individual that this blog was meant to bring attention to. Stop Means Stop chum!!
ReplyDeleteAs far as the "soft headed people" comment- what does that make you?
Obviously someone who feels the rules don't apply to him.
I recently started using Ethanac as an exit point to my home and unknowing failed to stop at the Ethanac/Murrieta 4-way stop there, consequently CHP was kind enough to point this out to me with written documentation. I went back during the morning to view the area and noted that the Ethanac W/B turn to Murrieta no longer has the stop bar paint on the ground and that the stop sign itself is semi-hidden behind the telephone pole. My hopes that the city will address these type issues because I've been noticing more and more of these same poor quality road conditions through out Sun City and other soon to be Menifee city areas.
ReplyDeleteOn a side note: I would also like to say I enjoy seeing the oldie moldies driving their golf carts around Sun City. Will this become and issue for them if the Sheriff starts enforcing vehicular codes in town. I'd like to purchase an electric golf cart myself and save on gas and drive into town. Any thoughts on this?
ReplyDeletein most of the core, you can ride golf carts..its posted...
ReplyDeleteI live in heritage lake, I cant believe how many times I have almost got T-boned/side swiped... from some yaahhooo running a red light, they have no clue @ menifee rd and mccall! I always take off super slow NOW and make sure all cars are stopping.... sorry to the neighbors behind me, wanting to speed! I am not gonna risk killing me or my son :-( this also happens @ the other exit @ simpson/sampson & lindenburger ..not only do we drive for ourself, we have to drive for others(careless people)
ReplyDelete!!!CAUTION DRIVERS!!!
((watch both intersection. be safe out there))!!!
I think mostly it is the elderly to blame. We've all seen Grampa Joe with his jaw hanging open and flies going in and out of his mouth as he drives down the road. If he cant muster the strength to close his jaw or even hear his wife having a heart attack in the passenger seat, then how could he have the ability to keep his eyes open when approaching a stop sign. Scares me!!
ReplyDelete